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Easy-X
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Joined: 08 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: 11:14 - 15 Jun 2023    Post subject: Dirty work Reply with quote
Ben Roberts-Smith: Top soldier won't apologise for alleged war crimes

I'm not sure how I feel about this civil case. War is a nasty business but this seems like a fruitless handwashing exercise Thinking
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Nobby the Bastard
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Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 11:52 - 15 Jun 2023    Post subject: Re: Dirty work Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Ben Roberts-Smith: Top soldier won't apologise for alleged war crimes

I'm not sure how I feel about this civil case. War is a nasty business but this seems like a fruitless handwashing exercise Thinking


War crimes are war crimes. He sued for libel and the courts decided that the evidence showed that it was more likely than not that he'd basically murdered people.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 15 Jun 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can we call it a War Crime when the case was civil not criminal?
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 15:12 - 15 Jun 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Can we call it a War Crime when the case was civil not criminal?


I guess so, there are crimes under civil law like trespass where they are a civil tort as opposed to a criminal offence.

I can see this becoming a dance of semantics though Laughing
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 15:15 - 15 Jun 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
The newspaper alleged he had committed war crimes. He sued for libel. He lost the case. The court found that the allegations were substantively true.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 01:06 - 16 Jun 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, yes... we know that civil cases don't mean as much a criminal ones. I'm alluding to the general concepts of a) believing nothing naughty should even happen in a war ever and b) going out of your way to create an army unit to do naughty things and get really, really upset when they do them.

"Nope, War Crimes just like that Putin fella!" Fine, then disband all the armies and get rid of the SAS first.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 07:27 - 16 Jun 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Funny that a soldier who shoots someone in a war situation can be prosecuted for murder yet when the USA dropped 2 atomic bombs on civilian cities killing 100's of thousands and that was OK. If you are going to blame single soldiers then surely the person who pressed the bomb release should have been done for mass murder?

I've never understood the logic of war crimes. They usually only become crimes if you are on the losing side except for the UK who seem to have no compunction about chucking their service men under a bus.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 10:11 - 16 Jun 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
Funny that a soldier who shoots someone in a war situation can be prosecuted for murder yet when the USA dropped 2 atomic bombs on civilian cities killing 100's of thousands and that was OK. If you are going to blame single soldiers then surely the person who pressed the bomb release should have been done for mass murder?

I've never understood the logic of war crimes. They usually only become crimes if you are on the losing side except for the UK who seem to have no compunction about chucking their service men under a bus.


War Crime is not the same as An Act of War.

Although the distinction is difficult to make.

But a war crime, generally, is something that happens outside the laws of war.

Rules if engagement is a simple war crime to understand.

One side is not allowed to fire at an adversity until fired upon.

That rule has probably been responsible for war crimes to take place.

The inactivity of UN peacekeepers in Former Yugoslavia due to rules of engagement led to hundreds of civilians being murdered by their enemies.
The UN, more or less, watched it happen.
I believe standing by when one's might could easily have prevented it is criminal too.
Morally wrong.

The UN permitted the massacre of 8000 men and boys in Srebinica.

Because of religion.

I can't remember if the Dutch UN forces were outnumbered in that situation. Maybe that was part of it.
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 19:26 - 16 Jun 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
Funny that a soldier who shoots someone in a war situation can be prosecuted for murder yet when the USA dropped 2 atomic bombs on civilian cities killing 100's of thousands and that was OK. If you are going to blame single soldiers then surely the person who pressed the bomb release should have been done for mass murder?

I've never understood the logic of war crimes. They usually only become crimes if you are on the losing side except for the UK who seem to have no compunction about chucking their service men under a bus.


and lets not forget our very own Bomber Harris and his firebombing of Dresden.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 16 Jun 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bombing civilians wasn't a war crime until after the 2nd world war.

Killing captured adversaries is also covered by the geneva convention. Up until then the whole prisoner of war thing was just a gentlemens agreement.

This second one is what he was alledged to have done.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 20:56 - 16 Jun 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
to v or not to v wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
Funny that a soldier who shoots someone in a war situation can be prosecuted for murder yet when the USA dropped 2 atomic bombs on civilian cities killing 100's of thousands and that was OK. If you are going to blame single soldiers then surely the person who pressed the bomb release should have been done for mass murder?

I've never understood the logic of war crimes. They usually only become crimes if you are on the losing side except for the UK who seem to have no compunction about chucking their service men under a bus.


and lets not forget our very own Bomber Harris and his firebombing of Dresden.


Harris was hero and delivered to Jerry exactly what they tried to deliver to a peaceful island community.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 21:38 - 16 Jun 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:
to v or not to v wrote:

and lets not forget our very own Bomber Harris and his firebombing of Dresden.


Harris was hero and delivered to Jerry exactly what they tried to deliver to a peaceful island community.


Working on that principle killing muslims is fine because of what they have delivered to a peaceful island community. Rolling Eyes
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